Now, where could a fascist gang get the idea of calling themselves a “Defence League”?

EDL thugs in Dudley make their sympathies clear. Via.

47 Comments

  1. robert said,

    April 4, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    On Question Time Comrade Nicholas the Griffin boasted that his was the only party to fully support Israel in its fight against Hamas terrorists.

    In the Thirties the fascists went after Jews. These days they’ve figured out that anti semitism is no longer respectable but there’s some mileage in Muslim bashing.

    The AWB in South Africa related to Israel as do the Orangemen.

  2. WorldbyStorm said,

    April 5, 2010 at 12:41 am

    My God, what a healthy and vivacious lot they are… and yes, it’s superficial to consider their appearance, but… first impressions, last, etc, etc.

    • splinteredsunrise said,

      April 5, 2010 at 1:21 am

      They are stunning examples of the master race, aren’t they?

  3. Bill Burns said,

    April 5, 2010 at 9:26 am

    The best refutation of white supremacy is white supremacists.

  4. red_eck said,

    April 5, 2010 at 10:06 am

    I wonder, how many cans of lager get consumed by each EDL member prior to their appearance?

  5. prianikoff said,

    April 5, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Most probably a firm of Tottenham supporters who couldn’t afford the fare to Sunderland on Saturday.
    Who ate all the pies?

  6. De Northside Socialist said,

    April 5, 2010 at 11:28 am

    “I wonder, how many cans of lager get consumed by each EDL member prior to their appearance?”

    Having watched the antics of the EDL on various video blogs, it is obvious that the old adage about the police being “blind in the right eye” applies to the latitude that the EDL are given for their demos, including the freedom to swill cans of lager.

  7. Captain Rock said,

    April 5, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    The AWB didn’t support Israel and are violently anti-Semitic. The EDL have black lads on their marches, and have placards saying ‘black and white unite’: does that not tell you that they are not simply the BNP on Saturday outings?

  8. thedigger said,

    April 5, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    bonehead, the bnp have a sikh member that does not make them anti racist.

    The edl are both violent and racist and according to their website anti trade union. No atter what their pr stance is just listen to their chants and observe their behaviour. If it struts like a fascist and salutes like a fascist odds are its a fascist

  9. Ratata said,

    April 5, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    The EDL quite clearly have fash overtones. But sections of the lefts sudden support for backward Islamic belief maybe allowing certain types to associate with the EDL who should be fighting on our side. It’s like in the north there was a tolerance from sections of the left for what amounts to a massive peado ring that was off putting to many of the working class.

  10. David Ellis said,

    April 5, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Ratata: why is Islamic belief any more backward than any other kind of belief? I’m sure there were people going around in the 30s saying `if only there weren’t so many jews amongst the Bolshevisks they’d do much better’. Whilst I’d agree that a few EDLers might have been recruited under false pretences, and they’ll pay for that somewhere along the line (witness punch ups with stewards at the Dudley piss up), none are likely to end up as friends of the left whatever we do.

    P.S. The BNP’s tame sikh is an experienced anti-Muslim pogromist from India.

  11. Ratata said,

    April 5, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Well most seem to be working class youths – if there not going to be part of the left, or their ilk, that’s a failure of the left as well as them.

  12. Ratata said,

    April 5, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    And David I don’t know how you can think I have any time for any religious belief. But in Europe I see Islam and Catholicism as the most demanding of concern, particularly their demands for faith schools – every single one of them needs closed down

  13. De Northside Socialist said,

    April 5, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    “Well most seem to be working class youths”

    Do you have any evidence for this?

  14. Ratata said,

    April 6, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Why what do you think they are? Part of the regatta and last night of the proms set?

    • De Northside Socialist said,

      April 6, 2010 at 9:21 pm

      I would at a guess say they are mostly a mix of self-employed, unemployed and “hoods” as they say in certain parts of Ireland.

      Here’s a article that at least attempts to analyse the EDL…….

      “For example, one of the leading figures behind the Luton protest is a self-employed carpenter and another runs his own internet company. The spokesperson for STIOE at the Harrow protest was an American student based at King’s College. Two well known Chelsea hooligans were spotted on the EDL protest in Stoke, one of whom works in the City of London and donates £500 a month to the BNP, and the other runs his own van driving company. At last month’s UAF conference a journalist who is presently working undercover in the EDL told a group of delegates that the EDL were “little businessmen types”. Although these young men are drawn to the defence leagues by the promise of violence, the political cement that holds them together is anti-Muslim racism – Islamophobia.”

      http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=11183

  15. ejh said,

    April 6, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Two rather different sets, those

  16. johng said,

    April 6, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Mr Seymour’s talk is useful here I think…

    http://www.leninology.blogspot.com/

    • ejh said,

      April 6, 2010 at 4:59 pm

      That link, however, will not be very useful for very long

  17. Jez said,

    April 6, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    What makes you so sure they’re working class and not overwhelmingly self employed Petit-bourgeois? Either way, they seem keen on opposing working class organisations as their recent anti union front page made clear.

  18. Frankly Mr. Shankly said,

    April 6, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    C’mon Jez for fuck’s sake. It’s not Germany in 1930. They are football lads- i would say a cross-section of occupations are represented, but most would be broadly ‘working class’. Doesn’t mean their not reactionaries.

  19. Ramzi Nohra said,

    April 6, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    what actual evidence do we have that they are racist?
    I suspect they are – but I wouldnt mind seeing some evidence (genuine question).

    • De Northside Socialist said,

      April 6, 2010 at 9:55 pm

      “Yet at EDL events, skinheads have raised Nazi salutes and other EDL supporters have chanted racist slogans such as “I hate Pakis more than you”. One protest in Luton in May ended with scores of people attacking Asian businesses, smashing cars and threatening passersby.”

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/11/english-defence-league-chaotic-alliance

    • De Northside Socialist said,

      April 6, 2010 at 10:15 pm

      Some racist phrases mouthed from the EDL Ingalund mob on youtube

      • Ramzi Nohra said,

        April 6, 2010 at 10:30 pm

        gracias

    • Tim said,

      April 7, 2010 at 8:32 pm

      So, support for Israel makes you a Fascist now? Jesus…
      It’s true what they say, a Fascist = anyone a leftist doesn’t like.

      And the EDL are fascist because some of their members use naughty words? – and yet their obviously multi-racial makeup does not contradict this?
      Attend a pro-Palestinian “rally” and you might hear calls for a new holocaust. Nothing at all “fascist” about that is there?
      http://scaramouchee.blogspot.com/2010/04/palestine-house-charm-offensive.html

  20. Paul Wilson. said,

    April 7, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    As a Londoner, former skinhead, CPGB member and Charlton fan, stereotypes can be misleading to say the least. Most of these guys would more than likely work as scaffolders or in small building firms, they probably have no experience in working with people who are different to themselves or hold different views ETC. The people who lead this bunch are probably small businessmen or self employed as with all the British racist groups NF, BM, BNP. They no doubt come from working class backgrounds but this strata always provide the foot soldiers for the Right.

    • De Northside Socialist said,

      April 7, 2010 at 10:38 pm

      As I have always firmly believed it takes an Addick to talk sense…..

  21. Paul Wilson. said,

    April 7, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    Basically Fat ugly white blokes who cant get a girlfriend and Chelsea fans to boot.

  22. Tim said,

    April 7, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    sorry, johng, my comment went in the wrong space :/

  23. Frankly Mr. Shankly said,

    April 7, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    What the video proves is that the EDL are into fighting the cops, which most left-wingers would baulk at. Secondly they turn out a largely street-fighting crew. The left do not, which made the SWP’s position (now seemingly revised) of demanding the riot police move aside so that we could all have a go with equal numbers of EDL so mad. I was in Manchester last October: most of the EDL were football gangs, with a few skinhead hangers-on (who looked odd in the casual company). There were some black lads among them. Had a battle taken place between the largely student protesters and the EDL we would have been butchered. There was not many Asian youth there that day, as there has been in other places. There were some anti-fascist Man Utd fans out on the day, but there is no left-wing counterpart of the EDL. They are not simply a front for the BNP (some of them probably think they really are not racist- they also have anti-nazi banners): most of them would be anti-asian or anti-Muslim-racist certainly and some would be BNP, not all. They are not simply a rerun of the British Movement of the early 80s, who were openly Hitler heads. But hey, what’s the point in discussing this with people who know all the answers and will want to fight all and sundry from the safety of their keyboards?

    • Tim said,

      April 7, 2010 at 10:12 pm

      “But hey, what’s the point in discussing this with people who know all the answers and will want to fight all and sundry from the safety of their keyboards?”

      That’s probably preferable to broken bottles at dawn…

    • De Northside Socialist said,

      April 7, 2010 at 10:36 pm

      “Frankly, Mr. Shankly, since you ask
      You are a flatulent pain in the arse
      I do not mean to be so rude
      Still, I must speak frankly, Mr. Shankly”

      Steven Patrick Morrissey

      • Frankly Mr. Shankly said,

        April 7, 2010 at 11:11 pm

        Mr. Morrissey had some interesting flirtations with the far-right himself didn’t he?
        As for scaffolders, wasn’t the sainted Billy McMillen one of them? As well as quite a few Irish republicans who came from ‘petty-bourgeois’ backgrounds. It’s funny the way that the left struggle to place people who are right-wing into non-working class brackets. Are the students who protest against the EDL actually really more working class than them then? Listen, the EDL are wrong. The BNP are scum. But lots of them are working class. And lots of the left are not. Problem?

      • De Northside Socialist said,

        April 10, 2010 at 11:31 am

        “Mr. Morrissey had some interesting flirtations with the far-right himself didn’t he?”

        He did and it’s why I personally have no time for him now. However, interestingly, “Frankly, Mr. Shankly” is your pseudonym.

        I disagree with your views regarding the percentage of working class supporters of the EDL, but I am unlikely to change your mind on this point.

        “And lots of the left are not. Problem?”

        Any real evidence for this apart from anecdotal or personal opinion?

        Personally I’ve no problem with with “middle class” people on the left, if they are sincere and committed. They’re better than working class Tories or lumpen/petite-bourgeois union/left bashers (and I meet enough of those types every day of the week).

        Can I respectfully suggest you leave the “Prolier than thou” attitude behind, you might feel a lot better for it, believe you me.

  24. Captain Rock said,

    April 7, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Please note that the EDL claim to have an LGTB section. Doesn’t that put them ahead of some of the left?!

    http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=194:edl-dudley-report-from-a-member-of-the-edl-lgbt-division

    • Lobby Ludd said,

      April 8, 2010 at 12:26 am

      From the link above:

      “The EDL is the only group in the UK that is taking action to defend gay people from the threats of execution coming from the “sharia judges” in the UK.”

      There’s a surprise, you can be both gay and phenomenally stupid.

    • De Northside Socialist said,

      April 10, 2010 at 11:48 am

      “John Toland noted that Hitler had long been privately aware that Röhm and his SA associates were homosexuals; although he disapproved of their behaviour, he stated that ‘the SA are a band of warriors and not a moral institution.’ [10] National Socialist propaganda now made use of their sexual orientation as justification of the executions.”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C3%B6hm

      Not the first gay members of a far-right/Nazi organisation and probably not the last. Unfortunately, some of their comrades may eventually turn on them, when the time comes.

      The far-right/Nazi’s are not honest brokers, they will lie, dupe, hoodwink, and obfuscate until they have sufficient power to act.

      Perhaps living in Ireland and watching renowned chancers, swindlers, and fraudsters like Fianna Fail has made some of us sufficiently attuned to PR spin, baloney and complete nonsense.

  25. P. Jones said,

    April 7, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    I must admit that the EDL’s support of bum sex between men is a very welcome development. I myself was previously quite worried that they weren’t.

  26. Ratata said,

    April 8, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    The Left may lose the streets but they’ll never take the Internet!

  27. Tom Griffin said,

    April 9, 2010 at 2:06 am

    A very good example of a middle class person involved with the EDL is Alan Lake. There’s a quite enlightening youtube video of him giving a talk to the Sweden Democrats, who themselves are a pretty far-right group:

    • Ratata said,

      April 9, 2010 at 1:28 pm

      Lets out every middle class person involved in the Left. Get a grip on the ground in england the right are making headway yhe left ain’t – to much time onthe keyboards?

      • Tom Griffin said,

        April 9, 2010 at 8:42 pm

        I’m not greatly exercised about making fine lumpen/proletarian/petty bourgeois or whatever, distinctions, but that video does illustrate that the counterjihad movement is not some kind of spontaneous grassroots outbreak.

        It’s true that it doesn’t necessarily fit neatly into the classic fascist template. I think that is in part because it is the product of a deliberate policy by a section of US conservatives of cultivating the European far-right. I expand on this argument here:
        http://www.spinprofiles.org/index.php/Counterjihad

        On the point about keyboard warriors, Lake’s own point is that the counterjihad movement had an army of bloggers but were being outnumbered on demos by the left across Europe which is why the resorted to recruiting football hooligans i.e. the EDL.

      • Tim said,

        April 10, 2010 at 12:11 pm

        Maybe if the Left had some kind of coherent policy on Islam or immigration then maybe they wouldn’t lose so much ground – these are things that directly affect the working classes after all, and things people care about.
        Moralising, and defending fascists like Hamas – support for which is almost pathological in Ireland – does nothing to endear people to the Left.

        And, frankly, Splintered, shame on you for such an anti-Semitic post.

  28. johng said,

    April 9, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    christ that Lake is a sinister fucker.


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